Police union leader on traffic stops: 'What does Louisville want from LMPD?'

Calling traffic stops a "primary tool" for fighting crime, the leader of the Louisville police union came to a strong defense of the rank-and-file officers in Louisville Metro Police, including those captured in a viral traffic stop video from August.

"If we're legally allowed, and by policy allowed, and we're acting within the scope of training and what the officers understand are their expectations, then my officers have not done anything wrong," Nicolai Jilek, president of the River City #614 Fraternal Order of Police, said Wednesday.

"The officers are doing what they're doing the way they were trained," he added.

Jilek's comments came the day after a heated Metro Council committee meeting in which city lawmakers of both parties grilled LMPD Chief Steve Conrad on his strategy for using traffic stops in high-crime neighborhoods to reduce violent crime. 

The meeting was a show of "political posturing," Jilek said, that leaves police officers doing their best every day caught in the middle. 

Those officers are given a directive from their higher-ups to proactively fight crime, but the outcry around traffic stops makes them wonder what type of policing Louisville wants from its police department, he said.

"We get this 'rah rah' type motivation to go out there and hit it hard tonight, go out there and do right — and then (officers) are proactive, and they get involved, and things become dynamic ... and then after the fact, things are pulled apart, picked apart," Jilek said. "That's not fair. We need to know where our boundaries are, what our expectations are."

At question is the department's apparent practice of using minor traffic violations to engage with residents, in pursuit of drugs or guns, in high-crime corridors of the city. Two recent high-profile incidents — the traffic stops of the Rev. Kevin Cosby and  Tae-Anh Lea — have brought the issue of alleged "hyper-policing" of the West End to the forefront. 

Related:Council members slam traffic stops as chief defends their use to fight crime

Lea, 18, a former homecoming king, was pulled from his car for making a wide turn last summer, then forced to stand in the street while he was frisked and handcuffed and his car searched by a drug-sniffing dog.

He and his mother, Tija Jackson, attended Tuesday's emotional joint meeting of the council's public safety and government accountability committees.

Lea, who had recently graduated from Central High School and was working as a car salesman, recalled how he had stopped at a convenience store to buy a Slushee and use an ATM when he noticed undercover officers staring at him. They followed him and pulled him over a few minutes later as he was on his way home.

No drugs were found and the citation against Lea was dismissed when neither of the officers, including one who asked him why he had such a negative attitude toward police, showed up for court. 

Joe Gerth:Policy or not, targeting black drivers erodes trust in Louisville police

Asked by public safety chair Jessica Green, D-1st District, how the experience affected him and his view of police, he said: "I was always told that if you don't do anything wrong, you don't have anything to worry about. Now I know that is not true."

One Republican, Councilman James Peden, 23rd, accused the department of using traffic violations as "an excuse for stop and frisk."

"Tell us what makes that stop less horrendous than it appeared," Peden said Tuesday to Conrad, who has repeatedly declined to comment on Lea's stop, citing an ongoing investigation. 

Both Conrad and Jilek have defended the use of traffic stops in policing, calling them an important tool for officers to use in interacting with the public and fighting crime. 

Violent crime, Conrad said Tuesday, is down 11% so far this year and he doesn't want to take away a tool that "makes our city safer." He added that one in 10 stops in the Second Division this year have found guns, drugs or both. 

Conrad said police don't pull motorists over on pretexts. He said he prefers to call them "investigatory stops." And he insisted, as he has previously, that the department does not have a policy of "aggressive" policing.

Traffic stops, he added, are just one of many steps the department took to reduce violent crime starting two years ago after homicides rose for three years in succession. Others included cooperating with federal prosecution of gun crimes and cracking down on narcotics.

Metro Council members issued a no-confidence vote in Conrad in summer 2017, urging Mayor Greg Fischer to ask for Conrad’s resignation and open the selection process for a new chief. He did not. Only the mayor can hire or fire the police chief.

If the rules regarding traffic stops were changed, there would be "frustration" from police who would feel it limits their ability to do their jobs, Jilek said, adding that he's had no officers come to him with concerns about traffic stop policies. 

Background:LMPD handcuffed a black teen for a wide turn, then told him to 'quit with the attitude'

Regardless, Jilek said he and other LMPD officers would follow any tweaked rules.

"That's the thing I ask Louisville: What does Louisville want from LMPD? Just make it clear," he said. "... If the city sets boundaries and moves the boundaries a little bit and we're not able to do traffic stops the way we legally and, per our policy, have been allowed to do, then we just need to adapt to that." 

On Tuesday, Councilman Bill Hollander, D-9th, questioned whether the department had considered the costs of traffic stops, if nine of 10 interactions turn up nothing and hurt relations with the community.

"That's the first step: look at if the costs, in terms of alienation of the community and the resentment of the community, matches the benefits," Hollander said Wednesday. "And I don't think they do."

Asked whether one in 10 stops resulting in drugs or guns were justifiable odds, Jilek said: "That's an interesting question. I would ask you, what would the acceptable odds be?"

If an officer pulls over a car and finds kilos of cocaine or a gun, they're patted on the back, regardless of whether they were sure of what they would find in the car, he said. If they pull one over and there's nothing, "you're looking at what we have now."

"In hindsight, based on a snippet of evidence, they're undergoing this level of scrutiny," he said. "I'm not dismissing the scrutiny. I want the scrutiny. But folks need to understand the realistic part of policing and what it takes to address violent crime."

Earlier coverage:Officials want answers about black teen's traffic stop

Reporter Andy Wolfson contributed to this story.

Darcy Costello: 502-582-4834; dcostello@courier-journal.com; Twitter: @dctello. Support strong local journalism by subscribing today: courier-journal.com/darcyc.