Vivek Agnihotri: PM Narendra Modi did not even run for 7 days. This is what happens to propaganda films

Vivek Agnihotri's The Tashkent Files has emerged as the sleeper hit of the year. Despite being panned by critics, the political thriller has got a thumbs up from the audience. As it completes 75 days at the box office today, IndiaToday.in caught up with the filmmaker for a candid chat.

Excerpts:

Q. The Tashkent Files has surprised everyone to complete 75 days at the box office. How do you feel about that?

A. I always knew it would do well, so I'm not surprised at all. But 75 days is a big deal because these days, films don't have any stamina and don't run for so many days. More than the box office and the fact that the film is still running (and it will keep running for a couple of weeks more, definitely), the biggest thing is that it has got universal appreciation, except for some professional critics who tried to run down the film and boycott reviewing it. But they have political agenda. For the common people, who have no political agenda, it transcended all the political ideologies and everybody loved it. The best part is that when we were releasing the film, people said that nobody will be interested in Lal Bahadur Shastri, especially the youth. Today, the film is doing well only because of students and housewives.

Besides that, it has been included in IIM-Ahmedabad's official curriculum from now on, as a case study. Lots of institutes are taking it up but the biggest success is that in at least 20 universities, students have formed small groups called 'Right To Truth' groups, which is the theme of the film. That, for me, is the biggest success and it makes me feel great.

Q. Given that you attempted to uncover the truth behind the mysterious death of Lal Bahadur Shastri in The Tashkent Files, how do you draw the line between the truth and creative liberties?

A. If you have seen the film, nowhere we claim that we are uncovering the truth. We are raising the question and saying that a citizen has the first Right To Truth. I want the people to go and tell the government, 'Tell us the truth.' Because we are the State, the government is not the State. The film has been able to create that kind of awareness among people. Everybody has realised that a major part of history was deleted from our lives.

I'm not a judge. I can't sit and say who has killed whom. That will be very wrong on my part. I think we are very clear and honest about this that we are not magicians or problem-solvers; we just want to take you in a direction in which you find the truth. I think that's what we tried to do and we accomplished it.

Q. The recently-released Kabir Singh has been slammed by critics for its misogyny. Do you believe in art for art's sake or do you think art must be socially responsible?

A. You are asking the wrong person. I am not a part of Bollywood. Nobody cares about me in Bollywood and I have mentally resigned from Bollywood long ago. I am an independent filmmaker. I'm making films which I understand. I understand sociopolitical problems of the country, they bother me a lot. So I'm making films on them.

I'm on the board of directors at CBFC. Every time, we raise this concern... I'll just give you an example of a very big U certificate film starring one of the biggest stars. The film is very clean, for the family audience and all that. There is one shot - there is a dance sequence is going on and the girl shows her butt, and he spanks her. That's it, it's a very small shot. But these are codes and messages.

There was another film recently. We did not let one song go on television but I think it was there in the film. The film was Ajay Devgn's De De Pyaar De. In that, the heroine is saying, 'Main toh sharaabi hoon aur raat bhar sharaab peeti hoon aur masti karti hoon, aish karti hoon', something like that in Punjabi. She is drinking and she is wearing skimpy clothes and all the boys are falling over her and she is falling all over them.

Now, someone can say, 'You are not letting us have Freedom Of Expression.' But if you let these kinds of things go, which is a practice in this country, later on, you will find that all the women-related crimes are connected with alcohol in some way or the other. So when you are glorifying all these Punjabi rap songs with alcohol and sex, young impressionable minds want to behave like them. If you look at the rap artists, they look like super-humans with a lot of gold chains, cars and girls around them. They are fascinating people. Imagine a Hindi film hero gets down from a helicopter and four girls are waiting for him with champagne and he spanks one of them. You have to focus on those things because those are codes. They condition the mind.

I haven't watched Kabir Singh, so I won't like to comment on that.

Q. There has been a lot of criticism directed at The Tashkent Files and the PM Narendra Modi biopic. It was alleged that the release was conveniently timed and the films were propaganda. Do you think that such criticism is justified?

A. When we make political films, there are people with political opinions. They try to discredit you and run you down. If some thoughts don't align with you, you say this is propaganda... Aap mujhe yeh bataiye, jab film release hui, toh kya kisi ne bhi bola yeh propaganda hai? You can ask the audience.

Films don't run for 75 days just like that. Because it connected with the people, it delivered some kind of an emotion which concerns the audience, that's why it worked. Whereas PM Narendra Modi did not even run for 7-8 days. This is what happens to propaganda films. The Tashkent Files is not a propaganda film.

If it was a propaganda film, why would I release one day after the elections have started? Won't I run it one week before that? The problem is, these days, we have just started reacting to things. Nobody analyses anything. If I had all the muscle and money, tell me why would we release only in 250 screens? Even the worst film of the year releases in a minimum of 600 screens. If it was propaganda, I would not have released it in only 250 screens. I don't care what people think, I have made a film that I wanted to make and I will keep making these kind of films.

The next film I'm making is on Kashmiri pandits. I'm sure when the film comes out, a lot of people will say that it's a propaganda film. Tell me, what kind of human beings are those jinhone 4000-5000 logon ko jala diya, women were raped, cut into pieces, two-month-old babies were shot with AK-47s... 1-1.5 saal mein meri film aayegi, aur aap dekhiyega phir wohi same set of people will say it's a propaganda film, even without seeing it. So you can't react to everything.

Q. No filmmaker has really ventured into the subject of the ethnic cleansing of Kashmiri pandits. Why did you decide to make a film on this?

A. The reason why nobody makes this film is because there is a very perception of threat and fear of elimination. It's a sensitive subject and there are a lot of dangerous agencies involved. But if everyone is going to keep silent, then someday it's going to happen in Bengal, someday it's going to happen in Kerala or somewhere or the other. It's not about only Hindus or Muslims, it can happen to anybody. It can happen to women. Someday, somebody might say, 'Throw all the women out of the city'. There is no end to it.

Someone has to raise their voice and somebody has to make a film which is factual and based on real facts, not perceptions. And that's why I thought it's very important because the geographical boundaries of India are slowly shrinking. Nobody notices but it is shrinking every year. That's why I decided to make this film and when you watch it, you will realise that it's worse than the Holocaust.

Q. You mentioned that The Kashmir Files will be based on facts and not perceptions. How do you plan to achieve this?

A. What I am doing is I am forming a tribunal. We are travelling all over the world, with a team of 6-7 people and we are doing unedited and uninterrupted interviews with the first-generation victims. Not their children, but the victims themselves. Like you record war crimes, similarly I am recording these things without any prompting. Just as it is. Then I will have a back-up of at least 1000 testimonials. Minimum. I'll base the film on that.

Q. Are you planning to reach out to anyone in Bollywood for the research of the film?

A. Eventually, I will. Once I have the script in place. Whoever fits the bill, I will approach them. Of course, why not?

Q. You are credited with popularising the term 'Urban Naxals'. Who, according to you, is an Urban Naxal?

A. I have spoken so much on this. I have a hundred interviews, lectures and articles. I have written a book on this. I have made a film on this.

An Urban Naxal is someone who is being funded with terror money to create unrest and chaos in the country. Naxals have their own document, it's called strategic document with an urban perspective. It's a five-series document. Their objective is to capture cities with the help of different groups like students, mediapersons etc. The people who are paid and working with the objective to take over the State of India, not BJP or Congress, those are the Urban Naxals.

Unfortunately, the minute I say Urban Naxals, a whole lot of people who have nothing to do with this issue also think I am blaming them. Either they are guilty, or I don't know the reason.

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