Unfiltered MSU coach Dana Ford on race in America: 'Racism is America's biggest rival'

Missouri State head men's basketball coach Dana Ford gave a passionate interview to the News-Leader on Thursday morning regarding his thoughts on racism in America following the death of George Floyd in Minneapolis and the accompanying protests across the country. 

Ford, who grew up in a small trailer in Tamms, Illinois, graduated from Illinois State University in Normal, Illinois — where there has been looting in recent days — with a Bachelor of Science degree in politics and government.

Following a basketball career with the Redbirds, he became a basketball coach and had two different stops at Tennessee State — a historically black college where he was the head coach from 2014-18 before becoming the head coach of the Bears.

MISSOURI STATE ATHLETICS COVERAGE

• Wheeler: I don't feel like criticizing Mizzou coach Cuonzo Martin. He's making a difference.
• MSU AD on athletes' return to campus, fans in stands, speaking out vs. racial injustice
• Coach Mox: 'Racism will continue until we are all ready to step up and be the change we wish to see'

Ford, entering his third year as the Bears' head coach, discussed systematic racism, being racially profiled in Missouri, his children, Black Lives Matters, #BlackatMoState and various topics in a lengthy interview.

Here is the entire transcript of our interview between Ford and News-Leader sports reporter Wyatt Wheeler:

Wyatt Wheeler: I'm a young, white man. What questions do you think I should be coming into this interview asking?

Dana Ford: It's such a complex issue. It's not a simple issue. Anyone who wants to argue that it is is just in denial. It's a very sensitive issue, it has multiple layers, it has different levels. The truth of the matter is it has gotten to the point to where it is, in my personal opinion, is race is a personal opinion because not everyone has dealt with the same — whether it be education on this subject or life experiences on the subject. In my opinion, it's just gotten to a bottom-line stance — and the bottom line is when you need swift, big change then you have to have the powers to be to do that. I think in terms of someone in your position, again with the different layers, like personally one-on-one, that's a lot different line of questioning than you'd do when we're speaking to the masses. That's how complex this situation is. In this type of setting when you're speaking to the masses is — I think you have to understand that race is America's oldest rivalry. 

We can ignore that if we want to but in reality, even if you look in the Bible, there were types of people who didn't like other people. That's essentially what racism is — is not liking someone whether it be for their color or their race, their gender, whatever the case they may be. In my personal opinion when you talk about race, you have to have an open mind. You can't look at it through one set of eyes because it's so different, it's so different. I think one of the biggest mistakes that happen when discussing race is that most people have a lack of empathy for people who have a feeling of sorrow. 

I can't judge you on what makes you sad. When you look at a coach, like a guy like myself, I personally have never dealt with anxiety or depression. Well, if I look at a person who is dealing with that, I can't lack empathy because I've never dealt with that. It's real-life for them. If I'm going to approach them with a lack of empathy, I'm not going to help them in any way, shape, form or fashion. The same can be said about different subjects, in particular, race. 

Like I said, we can't deny the impact of race on American history. I'm not just saying this from something I've heard. I've looked into race being a politics and government major. We've all heard of slavery and that type of nature but even when you look into civil rights and segregation. The capabilities to vote for an African-American. That was more of a strategy than a feeling sorry for. That's just the facts of the matter. I think what really happened is over the course of time, things have just grown up. It's just really grown up. 

To answer your first question of what questions you should be asking, in a grand scheme of things is "what is the root of the problem?" Like how can we fix this the fastest way? This thing of what I call, in my own personal opinion again, systematic racism. It deals with everything. I think the part of the criminal justice system in which a lot of people are upset with just for the simple fact that death cuts us all very deep. 

It doesn't matter who you are. When death knocks at that door, there's no other feeling on earth that cuts you that deep. You see why the emotions are all over the place. That's just because death cuts you deep. It's so much bigger than the criminal justice system. That's just what's out in front of people who don't really have an interest in the subject. That's what they see and if you don't dive any deeper, that's what you base your emotions on. Again, if someone doesn't choose to do that, you have to be empathetic to a person that does because maybe they only have the resources to only see race through the criminal justice system. I think there's a lot more to it and that's why I used the terminology of "systematic racism" because I'm not just talking about criminal justice. I'm talking about education, I'm talking about housing, I'm talking about employment. There's a system that whether or not you want to agree with it or not in which our constitution was formed when the African American was not a citizen and that's just the truth. 

I think one of the biggest issues that, on a more grassroots level, that race causes in terms of one-on-one is that people take this thing of race personal — meaning it can be a feeling of guilt. Well, there's no one in the world today who should feel the guilt of slavery. There's no person, no matter what your color is, that you're responsible for slavery. I think the decision becomes "are you going to be an individual who wants to take responsibility to make things better?" to change things. If you're not going to be a person who takes responsibility, it's probably best to sit this one out. It's America's oldest rivalry. It's deep. It's really deep.

You can't tell an individual how to feel about something of this magnitude. It is by far and away the biggest subject in our country and it has been for a long time and that is never going to change. When you look at most Americans, you either feel empowered or powerless. A lot of that comes from the representation of congress and that's what I mean when I say "rich, powerful, non-blacks" is when you look at congress. I'm not looking at a grassroots level. 

For an example, my relationship with a donor in town that has a good sum of money, that has a pretty good influence of things that happen locally and is not black has absolutely zero to do with the grand scheme of systematic racism. It just doesn't. Whether myself and that donor get along or not, it really doesn't have an impact on the grand scheme of systematic racism. 

This race, it's the granddaddy of them all as far as American issues. So, the granddaddy of them all, you have to bring out your best and you have to bring out your most powerful and your richest; your CEOs of Facebook, Pfizer, Walmart, whatever the case may be. Those people have to say "we want to use our level of influence on the decision-makers" — representatives of the house, senators. Those are the people that can make this type of change in the speed it needs to be made. 

If JQH Arena were burning down, you and I would be like a water hose to put the fire out. If race, in my opinion, is the biggest subject in our country — which I truly believe it is — then the magnitude of the fire deserves the biggest fire trucks that we have. I have a lot of respect for you and I hope you have for me but we're just not America's biggest fire trucks. We're just water hoses. You just can't attack it like that. 

My first initial tweet was that I think "talk is cheap" and here's what I mean by that because there are different parts to that tweet. 

Number 1, "talk is cheap." You can't, in my opinion as a coach, you can't come out with a statement. All those statements that were coming out — to be honest, I struggled with a statement. You know, I just tell the truth. I don't come out with baloney. I disregarded the statement. I just said "talk is cheap" because I know as a coach — again, death cuts us deep. You'd have to be an animal to think what happened to George Floyd was OK. Now, death cuts us deep but it's also the opportunity where it's easy to show empathy. 

Here's what's hard and here's why I say "talk is cheap." If you're a college basketball coach or a football coach at a level in which your student-athletes generate millions of dollars for the institution and you did not make a statement or have not made a statement, then they deserve a bigger cut of that money — then that's also a part of systematic racism, in my personal opinion. Then what you're saying is that it's OK that you and your family have nothing but you and your talents and your ability to go out and perform will help make my family millions. If you're not willing to make a statement on that, then you can't wait until the volcano erupts in which someone loses their life. That's why I think "talk is cheap."

On the backside of that, the fact that mentally — and I think is the mistake that the powers at be make mentally — whether it is physically or whether it is 100% honestly — mentally, the mindset and the feeling of some people in this country is the mindset that they are still fighting battles from the 1960s. I think from a mental standpoint, we as a country and the powers that be, have not done a good job of getting the narrative changed. Whether we want to believe it or not, perception is reality. 

At the end of the day, it takes — whether you're going to make an example out of someone to prove that we are still not there mentally. Now, a guy like myself has some level of intellect. I have resources and I have conversations with a lot of different people where I can have personal understanding that we've come a long way since 1965 but not everyone's allowed to have that. Not everyone is given that opportunity. If you want to sit there with a single mind and say that everyone has access to that, then you're just in total denial. 

My tweet is that we have not from a leadership standpoint changed the mindset of America — especially the African American community. How you do that is, you do not allow two citizens to wait on a young man to jog into them and shoot him and allow them to go to their homes and only arrest them when the whole country can see it. You're not changing our mindset. 

You have to understand that media plays a part. Part of your strategic plan is that you have to get to media to try to portray what you want the perception to be because perception is reality. I try to put things as simple and basic as possible. 

When you look at our team last year, you would have thought we had a .500 team. Well, if you don't look at who we played then you might just think we're another .500 team in which we could have switched out 3-4 games and been a better team. Well, if you don't have that resource, that knowledge, that intellect to have that conversation on an inside level then you're only going to believe what you see and that's OK because that's a majority of America and that's why perception is reality and that's no different than race. 

Perception right now, whether people aren't directly affected by this or not like it, the perception is that we haven't made a mental progression since the 1960s. 

Another thing — when I say the powers to be, the rich and powerful — we still have senators who refuse to vote on an anti-lynching bill because of a few words. Well, the impact of putting that out there could help the masses in making that unanimous. We all know that you can't lynch someone today legally and get away with murder but just the fact you care about the mental state will allow you to make certain decisions that you may not even agree with wholeheartedly. 

You look like at a coach like myself, I've never dealt with a mental illness in terms of seeking help for it. But I'm not going to promote an atmosphere where I don't want my players to seek a team psychologist. You have to have some level of empathy or things don't change. It becomes frustrating to the common person because all they know is what they've been told. 

If you don't deal with different races or have the privilege to do it with different races and colors and backgrounds every day like a coach would, then you probably wouldn't understand that.  

That's probably the longest answer I've ever had for a question but, again, it is very deep and it has a lot of levels. But the main thing is you have to approach racism and race in general in a systematic way because that's the root of the problem. The problem isn't whether you and I — the son of a police chief and the son of a mother who was given up at birth because her dad was black and her mom was white and her mom's family didn't see fit— our relationship in the grand scheme of the things doesn't make race better or make race worse. It's the total mindset of our country that has yet to evolve due to people in power not wanting to lose that power.

Again, if you don't study and understand the reasoning behind, for example, slavery started as a means of labor to not pay for it. Think about this: people were purchased and obviously brought to America do to work in which they had to pay to stay there. If their work was their pay, essentially what you're getting is someone to do work for free. Same thing I'm saying with a college athlete, right? Essentially, I go out and I recruit you and you do work and your way of keeping your scholarship is to work hard without me paying you. That's why a college coach if he's not going to be on the side of paying players, he can't be on the side of helping systematic racism as well. 

Again, that all started as a capital decision. Then, when you think about things like the abolishment of slavery. Now you're thinking about getting to the Jim Crow part of black history or African-American history in which at the time, they were free from slavery maybe from a physical standpoint and a purchasing standpoint — but the mind is what was captured. It was a way to try and pacify this baby of slavery, in my opinion. As you continue to modernize with time, you go from Jim Crow to segregation.

Here is one of the most disappointing parts of where our country stands right now to me: My grandmother raised me and I believe she was born in 1936. It's amazing to me that someone that close to me was involved in segregation but now that we're not in the 1960s, that we should have just forgotten about segregation.

You can't just expect people to forget about what their loved-ones endured. That's where empathy has to come in because that affects everyone differently. It's not a situation to where physically we're segregated, but from a mental standpoint, one could still be segregated. Just the bitterness and darkness that comes from the magnitude of slavery and race and Jim Crow and segregation. 

It's like this: If I were to beat you 15 straight days. I can't expect you on day 30 to forget that I had spent 15-straight days just beating you. I can't get frustrated with you that even on day 115 that you have not gotten over the 15-straight days. There has to be a level of empathy or it has to be a situation where you just sit this one out because when you don't sit it out, all you do is continue to frustrate the ones who feel like they're oppressed. 

Again, that's all systematic. That's all the grand-scheme of things. Until that understanding is universal, we're going to have issues. That's why I think "talk is cheap." It's 2020 and we're still saying the same things as 1965. Not to be a historian but the other night I listened to a State of the Union from Lyndon B. Johnson. I'm not going to sit here and say he was a huge fan of African-Americans but he was the president at the time and the speech that he used in 1965 could be a speech that's used today. 

To me, talk is cheap. We have to get lawmakers to change laws. We have to get the people that can make examples out of some people to make examples out of them. That will give you an opportunity to change the mindset. It's not about the physical thing. You need to change the mindset and change perception and then we can start to work on a more grassroots level. 

WW: I don't know the level of racism you experienced through your life and you have kids and you have a son that's about to become a senior in high school and will be going to college here soon and will be going out in the world alone here soon. Just kind of what are your thoughts there?

DF: Let me begin that answer by saying this: It's like anything, you have to have your own definition of what something is to you. I would say that the word "racism" and "racist" — I think they are thrown in a very light manner at times. 

For an example, I have been racially profiled since I've been the head coach here but I have never been shown a direct emotion of racism right towards me. 

It's like if you get pulled over and you get a DUI, that doesn't make you an alcoholic. It just means you did something that an alcoholic has a high chance of doing. Being a racist, you have to try to do that. You have to deliberately try to do that in terms of a consistent basis showing those actions.

Now, racial profiling, I definitely have some of those experiences here and not just since I've been here but my entire life. So my first introduction to racism was finding out my own mother was given up at birth because her father was black and the reason why being because her mom's parents did not want her to be a part of their family. That's racist. 

In terms of being racially profiled, yes, I've been pulled over. I've been pulled over here since I've been the coach here outside of city limits. In fact, I was pulled over in Creighton, Missouri, in which no reason was given except for it was about 8:30-9 a.m. on a Sunday when I was heading to a Kansas City Chiefs game. I drove right by an officer and made contact and was pulled over, my name was ran and nothing came of it. Again, I don't know that individual enough on a daily basis to say he is a racist. I will say that he racially profiled me that day and I get pulled over at 9 o'clock in the morning and not given a reason for, I can only assume it was because I did not look like someone who should be driving in the area at that time. 

I think a big gap of the conversation leads to one to assume and then we assume, you have to go by your own personal instincts. My wife and I try to educate my family on the truth. 

Another reason why I hesitated in having a statement was because of literally just two weeks ago, my seven-year-old son — every night, my seven-year-old son and my five-year-old daughter play superhero and they pick a different superhero — about two weeks ago, I overheard them playing superhero and my son said: "tonight, I'm going to be a police officer." So in his eyes, a police officer is a superhero. Well, I don't want to change that. I don't want to change that.

At the same time, I have to educate him on the country in which he lives on how things were built because we have yet to reform them. When you reform something, you don't have to change all of it. Again, from a mental standpoint, you have to get the majority to believe that things are better. 

You look at the protests today and it's all different types of people. In 1965, you look at the protests and it's all black. Today, it's a little bit of everybody and it's everywhere. He still has to understand that it is great to have a personal opinion that a police officer is a superhero. You also have to understand that there are some police officers who are not superheroes. Our goal as parents, our dreams as parents, is for him to say his teacher is a superhero or his children's pastor is a superhero. The truth of the matter is, you still may have to teach him that there may be a teacher who is not a superhero. 

There are conversations that we have to have. Our oldest son just recently received his driver's license. There are conversations we have to have with him in regards to how to conduct himself whenever he is pulled over by an officer. You give the officer the same amount of respect that you give your parent. What you have to realize is that officer is not your parent. He doesn't love you the way we love you and there is a possibility he is disrespectful to you and that might cut you. That might cut you deep in your core and make you feel a certain way, but you still must respect authority in the sense that when you are there on the spot, that is not the time nor the place to get what you think is due to you. That is a hard lesson. 

Whether one wants to admit it or not, that is a question that is way more prevalent to the African-American community and the reason being is that there is a history there. That's what you can never forget — that slavery, Jim Crow, segregation — is a part of the history that, again, it feels to maybe his mom or his grandmother maybe isn't the way it feels to you and yours or that officer and his.

It's just a lot of levels to everything, but at the same time you have to use wisdom. Timing is everything and that's not the time to do it. We're not narrow-minded in our household to just look at the criminal justice system. It gives our children a little bit better grand scheme of things but not everybody is Dana Ford and his family either because fortunately for me, I had a white head coach in high school who took me in and saved my life. If it was up to the African American males in my life, their feelings toward their history could not allow for them to invest in me the type of way my coach who was white, who doesn't have that history, decided to do. 

Now, he did that because I was good at basketball. There was some type of investment for return. Quite frankly, that's the American way. That's what America was built for. America wasn't built to be a social, equal country. We just weren't built for that. There was just no way we could be built for that and the introduction for your country for African Americans and be slaves. We were built for capital. 

Some of us are fortunate to get to that side of America but when you get there or if you are already there, you can't be empathetic to the ones who don't have that outlook. That's, again, responsibility as opposed to guilt — it's no one's fault that some of the oppressed are oppressed but there is responsibility. That's how I view that. 

WW: You did have another tweet in response to some of the rioting and the violence. It's going on in Bloomington/Normal, Illinois, where I grew up and you went to college. What are the thoughts when you see some of that going on at the moment?

DF: That's very disappointing. I mean, that is something that is inexcusable as well. 

I believe I tweeted about the officers who were trying to stop the looting that ended up losing their lives and nobody has the right to try to make a wrong a right by doing more wrong. Two wrongs don't make a right. 

I think a lot of individuals who do that have passion but it's being navigated down the wrong road. Not only that, but you have people who like to take advantage of other people's sacrifice. It's very disturbing and it is very frustrating and it something that will continue to move things at a snail's pace. What it does is take away from the underlined issue of what's trying to get changed.

At the same time, it shows the reason why maybe some of the powers to be don't want to change things as fast as they can is because, quite frankly, there are still people who will do those things. Those things have no place in our country as well as taking an innocent man's life in our country. Those things are very disturbing. It makes zero sense and it should not be tolerated at all. God bless their souls too because they're as wrong as any other person that's wrong and it's very disappointing and there's no excuse for it. 

I'm not a business owner. I like to look at our program like a business. If someone were to come in here and loot our locker room, I would not be happy with that individual under any circumstances would I be happy. 

At the same time, it's such madness right now that it's all one big melting pot. 

WW: You grew up in Tamms, Illinois. You grew up in humble beginnings in a trailer home. People look at you now and people can be like "oh, he's a basketball coach making plenty of money." How did your experiences growing up help shape your beliefs into what they are today?

DF: I've been privileged in the sense of that I had a grandmother who understood her race, understood her country and she educated me on many different levels. She was always honest with me. 

One of the things she always told me was "you have to decide what you want out of America." You do. You have to make that decision. Unless you are talented enough to change the rules, connected enough to change the rules, to be able to get what you want from America, you have to be able to understand what it takes to get it and be willing to do what it takes to do that.

I say I grew up privileged because it has nothing to do with money. It has everything to do with intellect, insight, intelligence and honesty. I am in the minority of the minorities. I had a tool that could attract a non-black, a high school coach with resources, to help me. And then what he taught me was education — get your education. Fortunately enough for me, I could play basketball and get my education for free that way I didn't have to take out loans or things of that nature to suppress me even further while trying to make it in America — meaning we pay to go to school to get a job to repay the school. 

Again, America is built on capital. Any opportunity that America sees to make capital, they're going to do that. Fortunately for me, I've always been a listener before I was a talker. I've been able to listen to all different types of people and understand where a lot of people come from and I think a lot of that has to do with coming from a small town in which there wasn't a lot going on. I could've walked to school and never been approached by anybody. 

There's some kids who grew up in places where they can't walk to school. They're going to walk by drug deals, a prostitution corner and maybe a racial profiling situation. I'm in the minorities of the minorities, but at the same time, there are still some things that I deal with that fortunately for me, that I have the intelligence to deal with them in a way in which progress can be made. 

I've just been fortunate enough to have been taught that at a young age, I was fortunate enough to marry someone who believes that and has been taught that. Again, everyone doesn't have that opportunity. 

It's the same thing with my children. Not everyone is going to have the same opportunity that my children are going to have. Our hopes and prayers as parents are that they're empathetic enough to one of two things — help someone that needs help or just be quiet if you're not going to help it.

WW: Are you scared for your kids growing up?

DF: Me, personally, I am not scared for my kids growing up in America. I do not live in fear. I am afraid for the system of young, African-American kids because the system has yet to reform. You can't have a huge portion of your criminal justice system that was made during the Jim Crow laws still in effect today. 

When you think about statistics, when you raise kids, you can throw statistics out the window. It's all about feeling. For example, if one in 100 black kids get beat up by the police, OK? If that one is your one kid, then you feel a whole lot differently about that statistic. If your one is of the 99, you're not going to feel the same way. 

What I'm saying there is that you have to take a broader look at the entire situation. For me personally, I'm not afraid for my own personal kids because my kids have a situation in which they can be in certain environments on a consistent basis that may keep them from that but that does not 100% expel them from an episode that can be life-changing. 

My empathy goes out to the system and the kids who are battling this battle every single day. That is the issue. 

Anytime you have a study that's done whether by Harvard or Virginia in which there is any town in America where possibly the population of African-Americans that make up the census is less than 10% but the amount of people pulled over on a percentage is over 75%, then you have to try and do that. You can't accidentally do that. 

When you start looking at things like that and you start thinking about a kid that's growing up in the intercity of Detroit, he is going to have a different battle than a kid who is growing up on a golf course in rural Missouri. Again, that's who my heart goes out to. That's why I feel like the powers to be have to do something about the mindset of our entire system. 

For us to be able to give the narrative that a portion of our criminal justice system was built around Jim Crow, that right there keeps you oppressed in itself. We should not be able to say that. The only people who can change that are the powerful, rich and, when I look at it, the non-African-Americans. 

Here's the deal, if African-Americans could have changed it, we would have changed it 400 years ago. It's the same deal with domestic violence — it's not a woman problem. Eight out of 10 problems are men beating women. It's not an abusers problem because the abuser is the reason of the problem. The problem is that the good men, the seven out of 10 that don't abuse women stand and watch. 

You could either have empathy and decide to do something or you can sit that one out. I don't feel guilty when we get a battered woman into our shelter or our home. But I feel responsible for hopefully that not ever happening to her ever again. That's the same way on race. Race is the oldest rivalry we got. It's the biggest problem out there and the biggest way we've dealt with it is denial and deception and unfortunately, I feel like America as a whole has gotten tired of it. 

A guy like myself, I was tired of it at a young age. Now, I think the masses have gotten tired of it. 

WW: You tweeted out #BlackLivesMatter. There are so many people that just want to turn it into #AllLivesMatter and make that argument. What's the message and explanation you have for those who don't understand what #BlackLivesMatter is supposed to mean?

DF: I think, first as a Christian, I have no problems tweeting "Black Lives Matter." That's just me as a Christian. 

Again, from a mental standpoint in our country. From a systematic mental standpoint in which that's how I view race because I don't view it on a one-on-one basis because that doesn't tell the story. A systematic mental view, I feel like the message "Black Lives Matter" should be spread. 

On a systematic view of all lives in America, I don't feel like that needs to be spread. I don't think all lives in America have an issue. That would be different if we had the history of being imprisoned to other countries for 400 years. That would change my systematic view on all lives. 

Being a Christian, I have no problems tweeting out a certain group of individuals matter — the same way I think when I go speak out at a Coaches vs. Cancer event and they ask me to get up and say a few words, I won't say "my grandmother had diabetes, diabetes matters too." It's just a time and a place for everything. 

It's one of those situations where I hope people believe that all lives matter. I hope that they do. I don't hope that they don't think that. At this time and place, I feel like there is absolutely nothing wrong of me being a Christian standing up and saying that "Black Lives Matter." If me saying that rubs anyone the wrong way, I have to introduce them to Jesus. I have to. I have to. They have to know who he is. Because if you know Jesus, then you have no problem saying that "Black Lives Matter."

WW: I saw you on Twitter responding to some people saying "hey, I understand you have that viewpoint, thank you for sharing." Why did you find that important?

DF: Because race is too complex of an issue to be single-minded about. I mean, just because I think the lawmakers and congress are the ones responsible, that may not be the same perception someone has that has no interest in understanding what the lawmakers actually do. They may only understand it on a grassroots basis and the grassroots part of it is important as well but my perception of race is that it's America's oldest rivalry, it's the biggest monster out there and it's on fire. I feel like we need our best to take a step forward.

Everyone doesn't have that view because not everybody has the same education on it. Everyone doesn't have the same experience on it. You have to be able to respect that. You have to be able to respect that. Again, my son thinks police officers are superheroes and that's OK, but there are kids in the middle of Chicago that the last things on their minds when they see an officer is a superhero. 

We have to do a better job at changing that, we certainly do. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and, again, my views are systematic mindsets. Systematic mindsets. If you are allowed to build your criminal justice system or your education system or your housing system around a time in which African-Americans were not citizens, then that's the message that is being generated and the mindset that is being generated and it's true. It's true. We're not making that up. And then that individual has to deal with that on a mental standpoint however he or she sees fit. 

If you have the power to change the mindset, that's what you have to do in my opinion or we're going to keep protesting. 

WW: You coached at a Historically Black University. What were the lessons you learned there?

DF: It was an eye-opener. It was my very first experience being an assistant coach. Growing up in small Tamms, Illinois, we only had one cop who sat at home until you called him. He owned the local barbecue shop and he made you sandwiches on Saturday. 

My view of police officers growing up were a lot different than most. And then going to a predominantly white institution at Illinois State and seeing the amount of resources we had was different than all of my views when I was at Tennessee State in the intercity of Nashville at an HBCU. You can see the pain on faces. You can just feel the atmosphere was different. What it opened my eyes to was the history part that I had neglected all the way up until then. 

It wasn't a situation where that history was staring me in the face every day. When you coach at a Historically Black College and University, the history of slavery, Jim Crow, segregation, criminalization is staring you in the face every day. You have to be able to intelligently deal with that. 

Again, it's not a guilt. It's no one's fault, OK? I do think people should feel way more responsible for fixing that. You can see the lack of resources at that level. You can see the lack of pure joy is what initially I thought was the difference, but it's one of those situations where it's a part of American history. That has to be accepted but it has to make the future better. Make the future better. 

There are a lot of scars when you start talking about blackness in a historical standpoint. You have to be empathetic of that. If you're not going to be empathetic of that, that's OK but don't be gruesome towards that.

It's amazing to me, the only thing on social media that I'm astounded by is the reaction to someone who is showing empathy for someone they feel like in their opinion has been oppressed. For an example, if you are upset at your friend who is upset that George Floyd's life ended in that manner, I need to introduce you to Jesus. I need to introduce you to Jesus. Now you're talking two people removed. Now, you're not only upset about something that happened but now you're upset about someone who is showing empathy for that. I see that sometimes and I can't believe that. It's just eye-opening. It really is. 

It would be equivalent to — I try to put it into terms of something we could all relate to — but if one of my players is struggling shooting and one of my assistant coaches goes and helps him out with his shot, me getting mad at the assistant coach because he's going to help him... it's just like "wow, you're not even upset about what's actually happening. You're mad at someone who's trying to show some empathy." 

It's just a lot, man, it's just a lot. 

WW: Have you looked through #BlackAtMoState on Twitter?

DF: I have, I have looked at that. Those stories are disturbing.

Me, not being on the campus every day, I have been oblivious to those and I apologize to anyone who has dealt with that. If I can ever be of any assistance to anyone, they need to come find me in the arena down here in the basement. That is a very discouraging hashtag. 

That has to be fixed. That starts with the leaders on this campus and I'm one of them. Me being oblivious to those stories in itself is unacceptable and I'm a part of the reason why that hashtag has been able to of been created over the last two years, but I'm going to do my part in helping that hashtag go away. 

WW: With your players, what have you been able to talk to them about in recent days with Zoom calls and whatnot?

DF: We have not elected to do a whole team Zoom call on this matter. it's been some individual conversation. Again, everybody's view on this is different. We have some kids who are on vacation with families and I don't want to intervene on that. 

We have some kids who I have reached out to individually, who have reached out to me individually and we have communicated about it. 

That's another thing that I think the powers to be and common citizen has to understand. Generation Z, they're not dealing with this. They're just not. All of the players I coach are Generation Z. One of our guys who is not an African-American has been disturbed by this more than anyone. I just think that does show that some progress has been made — especially in certain homes — but not in the grand scheme of things because the marches are still the same. 

Generation Z, they're not going to sit back and watch people be abused. Like, when my mom explained to me that she was given up for adoption because her biological father was black, I asked her "why?" and she said, "that's just the way it is." Well, when I say that to my 16-year-old now, Generation Z, that doesn't get it. That's where our country is turning in which, statistically, Generation Z, there are more of them than any other generation combined in America. 

You can take all of our generations that are left and we're still outnumbered by Generation Z. Things are going to change. Quite frankly, some of the guys we are coaching right now are going to make that change. 

WW: Who are some of the leaders and voices that you look up to throughout all this? Who are you educating yourself through and listening to?

DF: I think in the level of leadership that I have being, I guess almost a middle-aged African-American male, I listen to guys who are older and younger than I am as well as I try to watch as much history on this subject as I can so I can have an understanding on viewpoint. 

There is no individual I think by name that the masses would know. I do lean on individuals who have lived through certain parts of the African-American history and then I talk to people who might be a little bit further away from that time period in which they would be younger than me. I talk to guys who are intercity as well as guys that are rural. Just to try and get as much information as I can. In terms of big-name leaders, I don't have those type of connections. I just talk off my own life experiences and then the studies. 

I actually look into these things because I'm interested. I'm interested in the fact that there are some states where 87% of the time someone is pulled over their an African-American. I'm interested in that. I'm interested in the fact that some areas of our country, African-Americans are pulled over four times as much as a non-African-American and of those times they're pulled over, in less than 2% is there a citation. I mean, I study those types of studies. That's how I get those viewpoints on these things and it's different for everyone. 

WW: If a player was passionate enough to say they wanted to protest, what would you tell them — whether it could be a protest during a game, the National Anthem is always a hot topic — if a player were to want to rally in the streets right now, what would you advise them?

DF: I believe in freedom of speech and they can protest. I don't want anybody looting. I don't want anybody looting, that's not good. Any type of protest... I'm a humble individual. I don't feel like I'm so privileged that I can tell an American how to protest. That's why I thank God that I was born in America — you have freedom of speech. 

Anybody who tries to tell anybody how to protest, I mean that's just un-American. It's just un-American, I don't know. What do you say? It's freedom of speech. The hypocrisy of America is amazing, isn't it? It really truly is. It's like the thing I said about coaches. You can't be mad about social injustice and police brutality if you're not mad about the disparity in wages. These kids are making people... I mean, there are so many layers. I'm not going to tell someone they can't protest using their freedom of speech. No, I'm not doing that.

WW: Your fans, they cheer for you, they cheer for your players. What do you advise them to do? What actions do you want to see the everyday individual who is cheering you on, what do you advise them to do right now?

DF: Well they only cheer when you win, right? No, I'm just joking. 

Again, I think it goes back to you having a decision to make. Either you feel responsible for making things better by showing empathy or you don't have to feel responsible but if you're going to be non-empathetic, then it's probably best to just sit this one out. It really is. 

I think the first step if you're going to be one of those people who feel responsible to make things better and show empathy, then probably the first thing you should do is listen. And you can't put a time frame on that listen. You don't know the effect of that person's history; you don't know that effect.

You gotta think about this: A lot of African-American males that are my age were raised by their grandparents because maybe mom was a teen mom or dad was mass incarcerated. So they're being raised by people who lived through segregation. You just have to have a complete understanding of their history. Now, just because they're not physically segregated anymore, they may still be segregated mentally. 

As someone who hasn't had to deal with that, you may have to be empathetic and allow them to have that time to heal or you have to sit it out. You have to sit it out. 

To me, personally, I've always been the type of person who believes "if you're not there to help the cause, then just sit it out." Just sit it out.

WW: Is there anything that we didn't cover that you would like to say?

DF: I don't know if it is or not except for what has to be understood is there are powers to be who play huge roles in congress. Those powers to be are the biggest, most successful companies in America. 

Until those people decide to have empathy for the mental standpoint in America when it comes to race, things will change at a snail's pace or if they decide they're going to do something about it with the resources and the clout and the power that they have at the national level — when I'm talking about race, I'm talking about systematic racism at the national level — until we want to do that, we're all going to move at a snail's pace. 

There's nothing wrong with a snail's pace but it's the same... we're still protesting the same protest in 2020 that we were protesting in 1965. That is mind-blowing. Again, it's about the mental part. Mentally, my grandmother never raised me mentally segregated. She never raised me mentally enslaved. But I'm the minority of the minorities. Most minorities are enslaved mentally. Mentally. OK? So you have to be empathetic or you have to be quiet in my personal opinion. 

"Ranting and raving" as we call it in Tamms, Illinois, is not going to solve anything. I think if you're in denial when it comes to race, then you just have to be quiet. 

Again, racism is America's biggest rival.

Wyatt D. Wheeler is a reporter and columnist with the Springfield News-Leader. You can contact him at 417-371-6987, by email at wwheeler@news-leader.com or join the conversation on Twitter where his handle is @WyattWheeler_NL. You can also sign up for his free "Bears Beat" newsletter by subscribing on News-Leader.com.